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FPS? Reward Warriors More WP, And Logis Less WP

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Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 143	Posted - 2014.12.30 15:55:00 - [1] - Quote This is probably meant to be a provocative (read: troll) post, but I'll give a shot at contributing to a serious discussion. I have some lengthy thoughts: - Warpoints are only one measure of success. KDR and W/L ratio are two others that CCP has provided us as measures of worth/pride. The current post-game board is sorted by Warpoints. An argument could be made that they just had to pick one (WP or KDR) to simplify the interface. I'd like to see both or a toggle. - The factor "Warpoints" unfortunately does double duty. On one hand it is supposed to represent a summary of a player's contribution to the battle, but on the other hand it is the ONLY way of seeing how much non-lethal assistance a player provides. I think it would be less controversial if triage, hive, uplink, etc points were totaled under a separate term like "Team Assist Points". Warpoints could be the combination of Team Assist Points and Kill/Damage related points. Then, I think it would be a cleaner debate about the formula for combining the two to get "Warpoints". - It is regrettable that some think of this game as basically just a "shooter". It is (or can be) so much deeper and richer than that. I theorize that the weighting of points/unit effort towards repping/hives/uplinks is an attempt by CCP to encourage players to utilize the support roles so the game WILL be more multi-dimensional than just a simple shooter. I am a dedicated Logi. That's all I do. I seldom see another full-time Logi on my team of 16 except in PCs. I think it is an underutilized role as there is often more "business" for me than I can handle. Imagine how few full-time Logi's there would be if they didn't have the small incentive of getting high on the end-of-battle board despite all the lost suits and ridicule for having less than 0.5 battle KDR. Some might see a devolution to everyone being all-purpose soldiers as a good thing. I don't. - Have you ever thought about the fact that when you kill someone, or get killed, it is publicly displayed for both teams to see, and when you die you get a whole splash screen of who killed you and what they were using, yet when you benefit from the work of a Logi, it is anonymous? Who dropped that link my whole squad used to save us a 20 second hike across open terrain? Who is keeping my armor from depleting while I'm standing here slaying all comers? When I was desperate for more ammo and stepped across that hive, who dropped it? I think the anonymity of a Logi's work leads to a lot of frustration by slayers who contributed mightily to a battle and are surprised to find someone whose name they haven't seen all battle appear near the top of the board. - I don't think it is easy to do what I do. I am certainly much better at it than I was three months ago, and much much better than when I first started. This demonstrates it is not a simple formula as you describe. I still die a lot, proving the job isn't "low intensity". I also see Logi's "fail" at their job, proving the role is not auto-win. Those that fail, inevitably start working on their weapon skills and pick up another role where they spend the majority of their time. The fields of Molden Heath are covered with Assaults, Scouts, Commandos, and Sentinals who initially dabbled with being a Logi, but didn't find it rewarding enough or something they could be really good at. Will your recent "success" at Logi-ing result in you assuming that role as your primary one moving forward? There is certainly room on the battlefield for more dedicated Logis. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 143	Posted - 2014.12.30 17:01:00 - [2] - Quote Omega Black Zero wrote: For some reason, this feels like a troll post... Yes, the OP's use of half-veiled insults that are then partially withdrawn, and repeated use of inaccurate or incomplete examples are professional troll tactics. HOWEVER, it is just possible the OP is using them not out of malice, but rather to draw a larger audience to discuss all facets of the issue and come to a consensus viewpoint. He probably believes that by posing as "the bad guy", in such discussions, he is doing the noble thing by leaving room for moderate voices. He likely thinks that he is encouraging participation and dialog by those who would otherwise remain passive. Personally, I do not enjoy participating in such charades, and I may be giving the OP too much credit, but I do see a lot of well-reasoned opinions in this thread. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 146	Posted - 2014.12.30 19:17:00 - [3] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I agree with the premise of the OP, if not some of the details. My observations: WP are awarded at too high a rate for logis. Some WP dialback is warranted. I would prefer it is done so by simply lowering some of the WP values rather than a timed turnoff like was implemented for WP coming from rep tools. Bottom line: Logis take a great deal of skill to play well, and they increase the effectiveness of their teammates, and they deserve to have this behavior rewarded with WP. However, they are getting too many WP, so the numbers simply need to be dialed back a bit, IMO. Thanks to the deliberately obnoxious and extreme starting point of the OP, this sounds downright reasonable. See how that works? Had this been the original post, folks would have been somewhere between "meh" and "you're wrong but I like you anyway." Now we all want to agree with Leadfoot10 because he sounds so much more accommodating in comparison to Clone D and does not insult anyone's role or skills. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 152	Posted - 2014.12.31 17:35:00 - [4] - Quote As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, it is unfortunate that the factor "Warpoints" serves double duty. It would make for a much cleaner discussion if "team assist points" were tallied alongside K/D and a formula to combine the two provided ranking on the board. By basing your argument on Warpoints alone, you are ignoring the prestige/reputational/respect value of a good KDR. Those who provide team support sacrifice this opportunity for respect by: Making themselves an easy target in several ways Using tools and equipment instead of killing weapons In doing so, they sacrifice their own KDR, while at the same time IMPROVING everyone else's KDR. And this is done ANONYMOUSLY without the equivalent of "who killed who" messages. In a game most still consider to be a "shooter", anything, no matter how small, that improves a player's KDR is precious. At present, Warpoints are the only way to allow someone who dedicates themselves to the support role to gain any recognition for it. If I go 0/4 and get 400 warpoints, I am a scrub and no one knows how I got those points. If I go 4/0 and get 400 warpoints, I am efficient, have a marketable KDR, and 31 other players have seen my name during battle. This isn't the only reason why this thread is off target, but it is one thing that just keeps getting overlooked in comments. Warpoints is an insufficient measure and therefore it is unhelpful to base the debate on how "easy" they are to obtain for someone who predominantly uses one style of play over another. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 152	Posted - 2014.12.31 18:20:00 - [5] - Quote Clone D wrote: WPs are not only a social reference. They directly affect skill points. Excessive WP given to one role over another allows faster character development for the favored role. I would concur with this statement, minus judgmental terms and adding back in my point from above: Quote: WPs are not only a social reference. They directly affect skill points. WP given to one role over another allows faster character development for that role. However, lack of a mechanism for recognizing team support effort discourages players from utilizing that same role. I don't think this is an ideal balance of forces, but there is a push/pull in effect which you should not ignore. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.

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